danielmiessler.com - Latest Comments in Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Rob Cunningham — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 17:01:39 -0000

I love how the phrase "correlation does not imply causation" is misused.

It is impossible to prove causation on a macro scale like this. All you can prove is correlation. And if the correlation is strong enough, it cannot be dismissed simply because it doesn't directly prove a cause-effect relationship.

Folks need to learn to math.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Mike Paterson — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 13:34:53 -0000

Atheism didn't make Pol Pot's Cambodia very jolly. Enver Hoxha's Albania was hardly a happy place. North Korea is an atheistic state… I think the study you quote set out to make a case rather than conduct any serious research.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Andy G — Wed, 29 Feb 2012 08:10:53 -0000

This blog entry makes no sense at all. For example,

Vietnam has a highly religious population, the majority of the population regularly visit buddhist temples and shrines (although they are not necessarily buddhists, it's a bit of a mish-mash of various religions). Not sure how happy they are in Vietnam though or how successful you would say the country is...I'd hesitate a guess that it's not very.

South Korea is 49% religious with 26% of the population being Christian. Arguably a successful country with a happy population.

In fact this whole blog just smacks of an angry atheist trying to make up stuff that makes him sound either more important than he is, or more correct that he is. But at the very least, the data is off, and given the leap of logic involved, so would his conclusions.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Dave — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 11:49:35 -0000

I dont think that atheism automatically creates happiness. In fact, I'd argue that religion is a defense mechanism for humans born in shitty situations, and that for most of our history, humans have lived and died in shitty situations. Think about it: most humans have either lived as hunter gatherers or farmers. They're ruled by arbitrary tyrannies either of nature or man, and they have little say in the matter. That's not fun.
When a society can reach a certain material standard of living that is complemented by a healthy communal bonds, than that society can have happy atheists. Most societies are not. Yes, religion is often the opiate of the masses, but it is used precisely because in most countries, the people need an opiate.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

alderi — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 09:52:55 -0000

correction:"... the Western ones living in sterile and protected environment".

Eastern cultures (Buddhism and Induism amongst other) see our pensions schemes, insurances policies of all kinds etc... as the symptoms of civilisation decline, when the people would rather send their parents to rabbit cages than taking care of them so, when everything is so regulated, that people are prevented to think for themselves and to take their lives in their own hands. Rightly so these "uneducated" people look at our so called "social progress" with great contempt.

In my view prejudice starts when you judge people on what they believe rather than what they are. I have been living in countries whose people are amongst the most religious (like the Balinese, who believe in the existence of thousands of gods). They are the gentlest people on Earth. Why should we care about their beliefs, if the "end result" is beautiful? I would not dare suggesting they ought to question their beliefs.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

alderi — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 09:16:39 -0000

No doubt about the correlation between atheism and societal health.
But the title mentions happiness.
Has any study established a correlation, if not causation, between societal health an happiness?
My observation, as a traveller, is the happiest societies I came across are definitely not the Western ones which life in sterile and protected environments.
A refining of the theory would be welcome.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Freeze Dried Dog Treats — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 18:01:44 -0000

Educated and independent people are 1) less likely to be religious, and 2) less likely to be taken advantage of by their government

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

durvetwormer — Mon, 31 May 2010 12:59:24 -0000

Well done site. I'm very much pleased to visit the site.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

erock68la — Mon, 05 Apr 2010 10:22:15 -0000

Does atheism lead to low illiteracy rates and higher educational attainment, or is it the other way around?

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Mikobana — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 02:49:47 -0000

This is over simplify why the cultures attain such characteristics. Japan has a high young adult suicide rate, because of the stress of obtaining an education. Many times kids fail and their lives are so ruined that they kill themselves.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

beer — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:15:17 -0000

apparently this study has never spent much time in south korea. they are about as atheistic as green beans are colored red.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Andy — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:41:50 -0000

I believe that the article said organic atheism. China and Cuba are, atheist by state institution. Not organic. Also, if you will note, the ex soviet nations on the list of most atheistic are fairly economically and socially sound.
I think this relationship is statistically significant, although I haven't looked at the actual statistics, I am just familiar with the economic and social climate of most of those countries.
However, I don't think that this implies causation, although I'm sure they are related. Perhaps the inverse is true. Perhaps socially safe climates are good cultures for atheism. Perhaps it is because most of these countries are fairly liberal, and tend to service the poor rather than the wealthy, people are less dependent on religious organizations for safety.
I think it's only significant to say that the better off societies are more atheistic societies.
Which has a lot of implications, no doubt, but it's a little subjective.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Dragos — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:35:07 -0000

you guys forgot about Atheistic Societies @ Happy Societies of ex Soviet-Union , China , Cuba all very Atheistic and soo Happy ... dumb @ stupid

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

no — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:58:14 -0000

Norway is one of the most Protestant Christian dominated countries in the world.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Brandon M. Sergent — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:10:50 -0000

P.S. My blog is at innomen.blogspot.com.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Brandon M. Sergent — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:10:06 -0000

I'm pleased to see mostly serious comments here. Religion is a symptom in and of itself. the problem is mechanical. Or looked at another way, bio-electric. Religion was a natural outgrowth of tribalism, which is a survival advantage.

Point: The need to serve is built in to us. The rest is social inertia. The problem is technological, systemic, and economic (materialistically). The instant we have affordable, available self augmentation, these problems will vanish. The day people can make them selves what they want to be or claim to be, is the day we become truly human.

Attacking religion as a behavior is absurd, one does not choose one's emotions nor do they control their birth location and parents. Focus on the root of the problem. (Hint: Maslow's hierarchy.)

Decentralize the powers of human technology. Develop a backpack that would allow an individual to live happily anywhere on the planet's surface that can copy itself, and the problem will solve itself.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Saoirse — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 06:51:11 -0000

High levels of religion are there because of unhappiness: where there is poverty, there will be religion, because it helps. When people are suffering, they turn to a God or Gods because that gives them hope and meaning. It is, as Marx said, the "heart in a heartless world".

I'm an atheist, and it would be nice to prove that religion makes people unhappy- and sometimes it does- but we can't. It does help people sometimes, and we can not deny the validity of that. We need to make the world a better place to live in and then religion should be unnecessary.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Sasha — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 23:48:39 -0000

dude, 1st off
it's correlation does not PROVE causation (that's basic right there)
2nd it does IMPLY that
just look at the middle east, and how much it sucks over there, because they are controlled by religion
oh dare I mention, our own USA, how during the Bush presidency (a right wing religious nut and moron) this country has spiraled downward, and as he has passed signed bill, put in judges, and other things for religious reasons (or to limit our civil liberties)
so yeah, deal with it
you crazies

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Maox — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 06:25:08 -0000

I'd rather say that religion is the by-product of an authoritarian society and comes about as a result of the inhibition of independent thought. Or some shit like that. I was going somewhere with this, but honestly.. It's like 5 AM and what the fuck am I doing up this late? I need to get my life together, seriously. Can't sit here all night drinking.. All my booze is gone now. I'd have to walk to that all-night place. And I've applied for a job there, wouldn't look to good coming in there a fucking thursday morning buying beer. Damn it, I just need to go to bed so that I can wake up all fresh in the morning and start worrying about my life.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Alex Poniz — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 02:11:00 -0000

Not to mention increased suicide rates. Perhaps atheism itself is a side effect of depression, such as loss of faith, wilting interest in the world, etcetera.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Phil E. Drifter — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:00:04 -0000

This just reinforces how much i hate religitards. If you don't mind, I'll be taking this URL (and crediting you, of course) when I blog about this, probably tomorrow.

You can see my blog here:
myspace.com/sexg0d
that's a zero, not a capital o

Alan FTW, I couldn't have said it better myself. Let me just add: religion causes war. Pull your heads out of your asses and think for yourself instead of believing in superstitious nonsense passed down for almost 2000 years but written no sooner than 80 years after 'jesus' died, while heavily under the influence of drugs (hashish, psychedelic mushrooms).

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Alan — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 23:38:25 -0000

Yeah, correlation does not imply causation. This is true.

But is there no cause here? If one has a religion, you are constantly being reminded how bad you are for thinking what you can't help thinking and doing what you can't help doing. If anything good happens in your life, it isn't because of the work you put into making it happen, it's because a god wanted it to happen. If anything bad happens in your life, it's because a god is upset with you.

Honestly, it makes total sense to me.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

lasthope — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:10:55 -0000

Ignorance is Bliss !

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Peregrino — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:49:39 -0000

The more you know the less you have to take on faith. The correlation is between knowledge and superstition. The more knowledge, the less superstitious. The less knowledge, the more superstition. Those 10 countries listed probably also have the highest literacy rates, or the highest rates of citizens with college degrees, or both.

Re: Atheistic Societies Are Happy Societies

Arik — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:45:44 -0000

Hi Daniel,

Always remember the important rule: There are lies, there are damn lies, and there's statistics.

You are most likely looking at two factors that have a high correlation. Let me let you in on a few others:

The chance of reaching age 60 vs. abortions http://www.nationmaster.com...

Broadband subscribers per capita and phone subscribers
http://www.nationmaster.com...

Look at that last one - The number of phone subscribers didn't cause broadband availability - there's a factor that happened to affect both.

-- Arik