danielmiessler.com - Latest Comments in The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Emily Williams — Sat, 01 Mar 2014 14:08:17 -0000

I always thought of those words as a progression from absolute thinking (black and white) into a more abstract way of seeing the way the universe works. "There is so much more that beckons me to look through to these infinite possibilities"

I wouldn't think that Maynard would use a symbol for final or completion when the spiral never ends

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Olav Övrebö — Tue, 26 Mar 2013 20:24:42 -0000

Am I wrong, or is "Black then white are all I see in my infancy. Red and yellow then came to be" a refference/hint at the process of magnum opus within alchemy, using the colors representing the four steps (black- a form of primordial chaos, a fuse of all/many forms of matter or thoughts; white-the purification into one kind of matter/thought; yellow-the perfect/enhanced state of such a matter/thought; red- the alchemical color for "finalisation", marking the process as complete). Could this be a likeness over the thought process in our neverending search, or am I looking at this in all the wrong ways..?

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Guest — Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:48:16 -0000

I do not count 9/8 - 8/8 - 7/8. I count 9 - 9 - 6... where are we getting this. Ive counted so many times and now Im feeling stupid because im probably wrong, but counting 8 notes, 9 - 9 - 6 is what I get...

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

David Bailey — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:18:49 -0000

Doesn't the song tell you not to over analyze it.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Jay — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:29:08 -0000

The ratio F(n+1) / F(n) approaches the golden ratio as n tends to infinity; the Fibonacci sequence and the golden ratio are intimately connected.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Johns — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 22:33:22 -0000

That was awsome! I knew they were on to it! Even if the math doesnt line up for some folks really isnt the point. To be able to have tripped that hard and gone through all those infinite parrallell changes,see and experience the infinite mind and come back and write a well done song that takes you through it all. Impressive is an understatement.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Dr Aterru — Sat, 06 Aug 2011 06:37:04 -0000

this will answer all http://andyhky.com/overthin...

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Darthcalculus@aol.com — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:13:20 -0000

The fibonacci sequence is NOT the Golden Ratio. The Golden Ratio is:
" two quantities are in the golden ratio if the ratio of the sum of the quantities to the larger quantity is equal to the ratio of the larger quantity to the smaller one. The golden ratio is an irrational mathematical constant, approximately 1.6180339887" -wikipedia

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Darthcalculus@aol.com — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:09:25 -0000

Actually, the song title Cesaro Summability is a mathematical concept far beyond the fibonacci sequence. Look it up on wikipedia and prepare to have your mind blown.
Also, Parabola, of course, is the name given to the shape of the graph f(x) = x^2 ("x to the second power")... a "U-shape".
I am keeping my eyes open for other songs which reference mathematics.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Martin Davies — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:21:15 -0000

it starts left to right +1-2+3-4+5 then right to left -7+8-9+10-11+12 it skips 6 because it started with 6 this is also known as the holy gift.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Jon — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 01:43:24 -0000

Trying to graph that eye on a Cartesian plane... not working.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Jon — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 01:33:49 -0000

Tracks 10-12 are considered to be the three parts of a single song, they're often played together at concerts, but I don't think that's what he's referring to.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Jon — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 01:31:12 -0000

The rearranged track order is something I'm curious about too, even if it is a supposed to be a spiral formation from the center of the track numbers, that isn't a Fibonacci sequence.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Jon — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 01:28:00 -0000

What he means is at that point in the song, the time signatures change each measure, staring at 9/8, to 8/8, to 7/8, and then repeating itself. Pretty sure members of the band, specifically the drummer, have admitted to that being another reference to the Fibonacci sequence. I might be wrong about that last part though.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

cyborg206 — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:27:17 -0000

the singing starts at 1:37:something, wich is 1.618 aprox of 2 minutes, so there is the golden ratio again, well the drumming tempo it's already there, and i've been trying to corroborate it, but iI think that every 5 times there are 1.618 seconds again, not completely sure, the time signature during the "verse" is 5/8, again, 2 numbers from the fibonacci sequence, keep overthinking man!!! it's unstoppable, man!! i just realize something else, the strong part ! from the beginning lasts till the 34th compass, another number of the fibonacci sequence! just amazing man, can't believe how cool is this song, i've listened to it almost two hundred times in my ipod's counter, almost 200 man... love the golden ratio

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

M Lawrence — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 15:10:30 -0000

Danny Carey is quoted in an interview saying "987" was a working title indeed because of it's 987/8 time signature, and admits to understanding that 987 is indeed the 16th Fibinacci sequence.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Aaron B — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:25:33 -0000

The album in minutes is 78.96666...and so on. Spiral Out, Keep Going. Just like the number.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Eli — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:59:33 -0000

Yeah, someone had said that 9-8-7 isn't a time signature. It's not, really, but the section of the song is in a repeating pattern of a 9/8 measure, an 8/8 measure, and a 7/8 measure. It repeats every three bars. Written out on sheet music, this is marked as "9 8 7 / 8," so it does seem pretty plausible that the number 987 is taken into consideration. Maynard is pretty nuts, I wouldn't put it past him to throw in things like that, that are pretty convoluted and subtle.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Adam Bell — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:21:50 -0000

Anyone notice the 34 bars of 4 at the start of the Lateralus? My guess is that there will be an overall scheme with the climax of the song being at the Golden Section (GS of 55 is 34, 34 is 18 etc.). I also think the separate sections of the song will be a fibonacci number also. I'll let you know what I find...

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

sammib — Thu, 15 May 2008 00:15:12 -0000

try ordering the cd 1,2,3,5,8,13,4,6,7,9,10,11,12. the first half is the Fib Code but all the songs that are supposed to be grouped are grouped and the flow between each song matches up amazingly. i have found it is the best way to listen to the cd out of all the other orders listed

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Akshay Wadekar — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:06:54 -0000

Okay The earlier comment about time signatures should be corrected, the time signatures I believe are 9/8, 8/8, and 7/8, either that or the song is abnormally fast rhythm. Thanks.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Akshay Wadekar — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:27:08 -0000

Also to the comment about Tool's influence in Hindu culture and so forth, I just noticed that the next track on the album has a very "tabla" sounding drum, I can almost guarantee it is a "tabla". The track after that, has a resounding "bend" of a drum note that can be attained using a "tabla".

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Akshay Wadekar — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:16:23 -0000

In response to the time signature argument, I believe he's focusing on how many beats per measure assuming that the quarter note gets the beat, so 9/4, 8/4, 7/4, I believe, but I could be mistaken, it is hard to count tool time signatures.

All very interesting.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

M. Kowalski — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 06:16:55 -0000

6,7,5,8,4,9,13,1,12,2,11,3,10 is not the fibonacci sequence. However if you plot those points on a cartesian axis where point 6 corresponds to point (6,6) etc., and connect these points in the order with spiral like curves. You get something that looks something like the lateralus eye.

Also something while I don't think anyone has mentioned is the fact that maynard starts singing 1.618 mins into the song.

Re: The Math and Philosophy Behind Tool’s Lateralus

Steven G. Harms — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:51:09 -0000

Tool definitely like to work with the Hindu-influenced mystical bend. The work of Alex Gray ( see: Lateralus art work ) is a key visual component. I also heard that Lateralus can be listened to in a way such that it's complementary to moving energy through the 7 primary chakra centers. The order is:

13,6,7,5,8,4,9,3,10,2,11,1,12,13

You can tie this numerical projection to the Qabbalah, to the Fib sequence, to nucleotide ordering, to AI decision trees, to fractals, to construction Golden sections.

It's something about φ which reaches deep within the collective unconscious, the noumenal mind (Kantian condition of experience?), or our deep programming.